How did you feel when Ed started gaining more and more power starting in 2003?

[tvfan721]

As we all know, Steve was the main singer and songwriter for BNL all through the 90's. Steve and Ed were both frontmen but it was basically considered that Steve was the main guy in the band. He definitely had the most input. Then around 2000, Ed became more and more of the main guy with Steve getting pushed to second.

It's interesting how Ed only sang 2 songs on Maroon and yet they both got picked as singles and Steve only got one. Then on E2E, it was all Ed singles again. Steve co-sang Another Postcard but that was it. Then it was the Chrsitmas album where Ed was once again more in the spotlight. Then on BLAM, that's when I really noticed it. Ed actually sang AND wrote MORE of the 29 songs than Steve did! I was actually really shocked at that. That's when I realized that Ed truly was the frontman of BNL now. It's an interesting concidence really. E2E was when BNL's commerical success starting to really decline and that was the first record where Ed started gaining alot of control and Steve was losing control. It could just be a concidence but who knows?

How did you feel about it? I honestly did not like it at all and I think that's one of the reasons why Maroon is the last great BNL record for me. Don't get me wrong, E2E and BLAM both have some good songs but Maroon was the last true classic. Ed is a good singer and songwriter but overall, Steve's catalog of BNL songs is much stronger than Ed's IMO.

[McGerkey]

I felt hungry.

[AnotherHeartbreak]

I wasn't a fan yet back then, but I like Ed's singing alot more than Steve's, so I look at it as a good thing.

[CoastAL]

Its a fair question or queery that you bring up... Back when the boys first started, Ed wasn't much of a singer... and you can hear it in the early albums. It is no secret that Steve has a steller voice and a unique sound. Ed has over the years become a much stronger singer and has really made his voice stand out and has become really disinguished. It has not gone un-noticed by me regarding the increase in Ed's songs and Ed's singing over the years but I think it was a natural progression. Sadly, Steve is also known not only for his amazing voice but for his bouts of depression and other such difficulties. It comes out in his music but also... possibly... just speculating here.. his involvement in the song writing process over the last few albums. From interviews I've seen or read... the guys seem to be really happy and free of such "weight" (know that I don't actually mean weight) in the recording process now that Steve isn't there. I doubt very much that the break up happened over night... its likely been in the making since 2003.
Having been a fan since the begining... the break up was heartbreaking for me... they will never be the same... but they will forsure be BETTER!!! and are.
As well the roles of Kevin, Tyler, and Jim have become bigger and will contiune to get bigger too... this is very exciting times for the BNL and the BNL fans!!

[tvfan721]

Good point. I've noticed that Steve has definitely looked more miserable and bored in interviews and even on stage sometimes and such since around 2003. Maybe he lost his passion and was just phoning it in the last few years?

[Amicustoall]

I do not agree the basis of your statement that Steve was the primary songwriter. He might have taken the lead singing role in more songs (which I have not verified) but I think the songwriting has always been more cooperative. Steve had a trained voice, and I don't think Ed had trained his voice at all, he was more of a guitar guy. Ed has trained his voice more over the years and I think he is a fantastic singer. I have been a fan of the band for more than half of its existence, and love all the entire evolution of the band. To me the evolution is one of the greatest reasons to continue to love them. They have remade many songs over time to take advantage of all of the members of the group. I believe that they are truly a group with sum being far superior to the individual parts.

[Cynful1]

I felt hungry.

I still am. Sandwich? I'm thinking baloney.

[barenakedfi]

Some of Steve's earlier ballads are amongst BNL's best stuff, and clearly very much Steve's work, though I'm sure with plenty of band input on arrangements. However, in more recent albums I don't think Steve achieved the same standard. There were good songs, of course, but nothing to match Brian Wilson or What a Good Boy.

I don't think anyone, including Ed, would argue that he hasn't the same strength or trained quality of singing voice as Steve, but his voice suits his songs. I've always found it interesting that Steve's accent was suppressed in his powerful songs (still peeked through in the quirky numbers like Million Dollars). In contrast, Ed's accent is always very strong in his work. He writes quirky songs, ones that mess with your head sometimes! and his voice suits them.

I also think that songs Ed was heavily involved in writing were given to Steve to sing in the early years, because of the strength of his voice... and perhaps to a degree to do with the standing Steve had within the band. Originally, Steve was the lead singer, but in more recent years it was much more of an equal partnership, and I think BNL was the better for it.

I have to say, aside from Steve's best work (as above), most of my favourites are Ed songs (For you, One & Only, Down to Earth, Take it Outside amongst others).

[ProudMommy77]

Having always been partial to Ed's voice, this perhaps has a bias response. Over the last few weeks I've been re-listening to the catalog and reading the liner notes, specifically the song writing credits.

The majority are credited to both Page/Robertson, with Steve doing most of the lead vocals. Once we hit E2E (as mentioned above) there are a significant increase in Ed songs, but, you might also notice, more of the Kevin and Jim songs, too.

Perhaps as a whole band, the "back benchers" of the early days were feeling more confident and wanted to have their voices heard as well.

I've always loved E2E the best, until AIGT. That has become my favourite album. Perhaps it's because it's got the rockier edge, but there's just something passionate coming out in all the songs from them. They definitely love their jobs again.

Don't get me wrong, as a fan from the Yellow Tape days, I was also quite saddened by Steve's departure. But not for a second did I think they a) wouldn't carry on, or b) decrease in credibility or showmanship as a band.

Just my two cents.

[Shardith]

I do not agree the basis of your statement that Steve was the primary songwriter. He might have taken the lead singing role in more songs (which I have not verified) but I think the songwriting has always been more cooperative. Steve had a trained voice, and I don't think Ed had trained his voice at all, he was more of a guitar guy. Ed has trained his voice more over the years and I think he is a fantastic singer. I have been a fan of the band for more than half of its existence, and love all the entire evolution of the band. To me the evolution is one of the greatest reasons to continue to love them. They have remade many songs over time to take advantage of all of the members of the group. I believe that they are truly a group with sum being far superior to the individual parts.

I'm not sure how I could say this better so I'll just agree with you :D

[IWakeUpStrange]

I don't see it really starting in 2003.

Though Ed did sing a few songs on every BNL album, I don't think either he or Steve ever denied the fact that for a lot of the band's lifespan, Ed was the lead guitarist who occasionally sang, and Steve was the lead singer who occasionally played guitar. It was actually around Stunt that it changed. Ed sang lead on 7 songs on Stunt -- 8 if you count his half of "Some Fantastic." That's more than he sang on any record -- including E2E (5 lead songs) -- until BLAMen (7 lead songs).

Stunt in general represented a major shift in the band. They went through a significant amount of stuff in between BOAPS and that record, and I think Ed stepping up to do more singing was just part of those changes.

Similarly, E2E also represented a shift, as both Ed and Steve decided to include more of the whole band in the songwriting process. The success of that venture led to the greater vocal presence of Kevin and Jim on BLAM/BLAMen as well as Snacktime.

The reason Ed songs were the singles was because "One Week" was so hugely successful, I believe the thinking of the higher-ups was that 1) Ed's voice was more well known to the mainstream, Top 40 audience (the success of "It's All Been Done" not withstanding), and 2) anything that sounded as close to "One Week" as possible should be the lead single. That's why we got "Pinch Me," "Another Postcard," and "Easy" as the singles, even though none of those were really the strongest single contenders on any of those 3 records.

I think a lot of this, of course, is Ed just becoming more comfortable with his voice. I think he really made it a point to push himself on the last few records, and it clearly shows. I've always liked Ed's voice, but you can tell he's grown and improved a lot as a singer in recent years. It's been great to watch. I think with Steve gone he'll only get better.

:) elise

[garyrulez]

I don't like the premise that Ed was gaining "power". I don't think anyone in the band would have looked at it like that.

It's true that as the years have gone by, especially, say, the last 5, Steve has written less. Is this him losing "power" or just losing interest?

[Shardith]

I don't like the premise that Ed was gaining "power". I don't think anyone in the band would have looked at it like that.

It's true that as the years have gone by, especially, say, the last 5, Steve has written less. Is this him losing "power" or just losing interest?

A good point. I don't care for the phrase "gaining more and more power" either in describing the creative shifts that have happened over the years. It makes things sound more dramatic than they probably actually were.

[Suebee42]

I don't like the premise that Ed was gaining "power". I don't think anyone in the band would have looked at it like that.

It's true that as the years have gone by, especially, say, the last 5, Steve has written less. Is this him losing "power" or just losing interest?

+5

The "power" premise implies there was some sort of planned coup in the works for the last 7 years, which is bullshit. People change and grow, and so do bands. Stuff happens. Life happens. It seemed more to me that Steve's priorities shifted, not any "power play" on Ed's part.

[McGerkey]

Well from what I've read, it seems that when Steve would bring a song to the band, they'd switch up the arrangement to play it some different way from how it was originally written. Which is part of being in a band with many talented musicians and songwriters (and what makes BNL so great), but it's gotta kind of hurt your pride a bit when someone tells you they don't like how you wrote one of your songs.

So I dunno, maybe that just made him a bit reluctant to share all his songs with the band.

Or something.

[garyrulez]

I had never heard Steve was bringing songs in which were switched around and recorded differently than he'd intended.

[McGerkey]

I had never heard Steve was bringing songs in which were switched around and recorded differently than he'd intended.

I definitely remember reading something along those lines in a newish (last couple months), short interview with Steve about why he left.

Can't seem to find it, but it's gotta be somewhere.

[garyrulez]

Huh...I'd love to see that. What's funny is that I'm sure that with all the various legitimate reasons for Steve's departure, "creative differences" was just as real as some of the other more dramatic ones.

[tvfan721]

Well from what I've read, it seems that when Steve would bring a song to the band, they'd switch up the arrangement to play it some different way from how it was originally written. Which is part of being in a band with many talented musicians and songwriters (and what makes BNL so great), but it's gotta kind of hurt your pride a bit when someone tells you they don't like how you wrote one of your songs.

So I dunno, maybe that just made him a bit reluctant to share all his songs with the band.

Or something.


Yeah, I saw that interview. Someone on Barenaked.net posted it once.

That's why I don't think Steve was "losing interest" or anything like that. If you believe what Steve has been saying in interviews, he definitely was being pushed out at least a little bit.

[Suebee42]

Or maybe he was just perceiving it that way, and his interviews reflect that. As always, there are two sides to every story, and I highly doubt ANYONE was trying to "take over." If anything, they were trying to make things more equal for ALL the band members, than it just being "The Steve & Ed Show."

One of the things that came up in other interviews with Ed was that it was getting hard to accomplish things for the band because they couldn't get all five of them together to make decisions... and Steve happened to be the unavailable one. So yeah, I think he was losing some interest, and wanted to do other projects (like Art of Time Ensemble) that he couldn't fit in because of band commitments.

I know I'm not making this stuff up in my head. It's documented out there in internet land.

Basically, though, all I'm saying is taking the "power play" angle in the OP is just not fair. To Ed or Steve.

[tvfan721]

I think were both right. Steve was probably being pushed out creatively and he ended up losing interest in BNL because of it.

[Super Dave]

I can find several meanings in the lyrics to 'Golden Boy' and one of those themes relates strongly to the discussion on this thread. The term "golden boy" in the generic sense is used to describe someone who did something great when they were much younger. Some could argue Steve did his best work as a teenager and in his early '20s and as time went on he was never able to recapture that early brilliance or at least not prolifically enough to fill an album's worth of material. That could have led to other voices in the band coming with good ideas for songs and commanding more attention as the years went on and the band matured.

Dave

[tvfan721]

Superdave, what do you think then? Do you think Steve's work on E2E and BLAM is not as good as his eariler work?

[Super Dave]

Superdave, what do you think then? Do you think Steve's work on E2E and BLAM is not as good as his eariler work?

If I look at it simply from the songs I like the most, the overwhelming majority of the songs I like that are sung by Steve come from earlier in in their catalog. The reverse is mostly true for Ed but it not as greatly skewed.

Dave

[Neil]

I would wager that one of the issues that Steven had with the band was that they didn't want to use the songs he co-wrote with Stephen Duffy anymore. That cut off a whole stream of his songwriting, so it's no surprise his presence on the band's records was reduced from what it had been. Plus, he went and recorded the Duffy songs as a solo album, thus getting a taste for doing things on his own.

I always thought BNL turning down those songs was a bad decision -- there were many good songs on that record the band could have had, and the songs ended up being semi-wasted because the album was so low profile -- Steven didn't even put his name on it. Imagine if they'd made that decision earlier and "Jane," "Alternative Girlfriend," "Alcohol" and "Call and Answer" had never been on their records.

On the other hand, the point was brought up above that Ed sang several songs on Stunt, so he didn't just start singing more after 2000. I always wondered why there was that change in balance and then on Maroon Ed was back to only singing a couple of songs.

Ironically, All in Good Time features a couple of songs written by Ed with an outside songwriter.

[mistee84]

I'm not really into the whole speculation thing, why Steven left the band in general (besides the obvious that we already know) is between him and the band.

But I think the writing partnership with Duffy had a lot to do with it. They produced some good songs, some not so good songs (in my opinion at least), but maybe there were songs that we don't know about that just didn't fit in the band ratio. Or maybe their relationship was threatening the band in someway or another.

[Shardith]

I guess it's human nature to speculate on what happened, but no one knows the real story except the parties directly involved. I've had experience with a breakup of my own and all speculation about us from outside parties was so far off the truth it was laughable.

[JaneInANutshell]

I too dislike the idea of one or the other acting as some sort of dictator trying to push the other out. When you've got 5 people in one band, it's very difficult to showcase the creative output of everyone equally all the time, so naturally the one being in the "spotlight", if you will, is going to shift occasionally.

And I for one feel like the speculation on this sort of stuff needs to end. It's time to move forward and look to the future.

[Suebee42]

And I for one feel like the speculation on this sort of stuff needs to end. It's time to move forward and look to the future.

+42

I can't agree enough. *thumbs up*

[Appleblossom28]

I agree too time to move on they have:)

[McGerkey]

I disagree. The more ridiculous conspiracy theories the better.

[tvfan721]

I think people are misunderstanding my thread here. This thread has NOTHING to do with spectacling why Steve left, it's not our business. It's merely about Ed singing and writing more songs on later albums than on eariler albums. I think this topic was a valid thing to discuss. I don't understand why people are getting upset.

[Den of Antiquity]

Easy to do sometimes... BNL fans are so passionate, I've been hesitant to post on the topic becuase I was so NOT a fan of Steve even way back in '98 when I first discovered the band. I'll probably get hate posts for even saying just that...

My take is this...

When the band first started, there was sort of a dual front man mentality HOWEVER, Steve was obviously the more comfortable front man, the better singer, probably the better or at least more prolific songwriter. Ed was the guitar player who wrote a little and sang a little. In fact, I want to say it was at the songwriters workshop was back on S&D I, or maybe it was on one of the discussion tracks on the iTunes special release stuff, where I heard Ed admit openly to that fact and thank Steve for helping him to get better at vocals and being a front man and songwriting. Steve also thanked Ed for making him a better guitar player. It was an amicable enough discussion, but.... eventually the student becomes the master and I think that's sort of what happened here.

Such a shift occurs slowly over time and then all of a sudden the master looks up and says "Hey wait a minute, this isn't how I like it to be" and he moves on to be the master of a new group. Very seldom is there enough room in a band for two masters for very long. It's not so much that Steve got any worse, per se. It's that Ed got better. He got REALLY better. That's a tough shift for any team to handle.

(How many celebrity marriages start out with one person in the limelight and one person sort of a secondary novelty actor or actress. What usually happens when the fortunes shift the other direction? Usually a split.)

In my band, we all suck equally, so we don't have that problem.

[McGerkey]

It's not so much that Steve got any worse, per se. It's that Ed got better. He got REALLY better.

... at what?

[Den of Antiquity]

... at what?

Well, it's just my personal tastes, obviously, but I think if I go back to when I first saw them on the Stunt tour in '98 at the Shoreline and compare that show and the material to what I saw on S&D V (tensions notwithstanding) Ed is a MUCH better singer, a better songwriter and even better as a stage prescence than he was in '98. I didn't have the pleasure of seeing them in the Gordon/MYSD/BOAPS days, so I can't compare to way back except on the actual recorded works.

I can't wait for the Santa Rosa show coming up to see the new lineup in action. I'm hoping to witness even further improvement up close and personal.

[garyrulez]

Great stuff, DOA...so, Steve was Alec Baldwin and Ed was Kim Bassinger, and everything was wonderful while Steve was in Glengarry Glen Ross...and then the bitch went and won an Oscar, and the rest is history.

[McGerkey]

Ed is a MUCH better singer, a better songwriter

http://doostang.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/george-bush-laughing.jpg

The songwriting part is, like you said, just a matter of personal taste. They're both great songwriters.

Saying that Ed is the better singer though, is just

well

uh

no.

Ed has a great voice, and you might like it more, but Steve Page is a vocal god. He is Thor. When he opens his mouth to sing, GIANT HAMMERS OF LIGHTNING FLY FROM HIS THROAT AND INTO THE AUDIENCE, WHERE EVERY PERSON IN THE VENUE IS BLUDGEONED/ELECTRIFIED TO DEATH.

I've seen the aftermath of such a thing in the year 2006. It was my first BNL concert and I was so excited. Halfway through the show I had to use the bathroom and couldn't put it off for another second. After the typical 20 minute wait, I was in the bathroom stall when I heard the band start playing "Call and Answer" with the audience going nuts after the first opening bars. I was wiping when they got the the "I'M WAAAARNIN YOU DON'T EVER DO THOSE CRAZY MESSED UP THINGS THAT YOU DO" part. Suddenly, the audience's screams of joy turned into screams of horror and pain. I finished up, washed my hands as quick as possible, and ran out to see what was the matter. What I saw was both the most horrible and glorious sight I have ever witnessed.

The band had finished playing the song and the entire venue was dead silent. I looked at across the room at the seats, and saw nothing but bloody, charred corpses. Everyone was dead, my parents included. I crawled to their seats on my hands and knees, sobbing uncontrollably. "HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN" I whimpered into the pant leg of my dead mother's jeans. "WHY GOD, WHY???" But this was not the work of God.

I looked up and saw a golden hammer, loosing itself from my father's cracked, broken-in skull. It flew into the air toward the stage. I looked up into the sky and saw thousands of the things, all seemingly being pulled to the same spot. I stood up.

Steven Page was standing center stage while the rest of the band packed up their equipment. His unnaturally large mouth seemed to be stuck open as the hammers flew towards him, shrinking as they got nearer and eventually disappearing down his throat. Stunned, I fell back, landing on my mother's body. I heard a snap and her head rolled down into my lap. I screamed and dropped it onto the floor. When it hit the ground, it crumbled into an ashy white dust. I stood up, tears streaming down my face, and stared at Page. Apparently my scream had gotten his attention, because he was staring at me as well. We stood there, looking into each other's mind's for what seemed like an eternity (though realistically was more like 30 seconds). Suddenly, he broke the gaze, turned around and went backstage, maybe to have a glass of water before getting back onto the tour bus.

When he was gone from view I fainted, hitting my head hard on the concrete floor.

I woke up a couple days later in a hospital. It took me months to recover mentally and deal with the trauma of seeing my mother's burnt, severed head grinning up at me from my lap, but I'm fine now.

My therapist always used to ask me if I hated Mr. Page now, after all he's done to me and my family, but my answer is always the same: He may have killed my parents and an entire building full of other people's parents, but hatred is one thing I do not feel for him.

Here is a list of what I feel for Mr. Page:

1. Fear
2. Respect

Now think to yourself, Dan, and think hard; can Ed do such a thing? I don't think so.

Case closed.

[ProudMommy77]

...) Ed is a MUCH better singer, a better songwriter and even better as a stage prescence than he was in '98. I didn't have the pleasure of seeing them in the Gordon/MYSD/BOAPS days, so I can't compare to way back except on the actual recorded works.

Well said! And I did see them in those days, and there's always something I remember saying in my head at the concerts, "Shut up, Steve, and let Ed sing and talk more!"

I can't wait for the Santa Rosa show coming up to see the new lineup in action. I'm hoping to witness even further improvement up close and personal.

You will. I was in awe at this concert -- it was amazing to hear Ed sing so often, and more importantly, have the spotlight on Kev, Ty, and Jim more, too. Hope you have a fabulous time!

[tvfan721]

Ed is definitely more marketable than Steve and I wonder if that was part of the reason the record company started picking more Ed songs than Steve songs. Ed has always come across as being more down to earth, friendlier and likeable. Steve is definitely a great person though.

Sadly, these kind of things DO matter when it comes to marketablity. What do you think? Could these also be reasons?

[Amicustoall]

Proud I am looking forward to all of that. We saw them in Vegas and they were great, but were not totally comfortable with all the new arrangements and interaction between the four of them. From what I have read and heard from friends and others I will not be disappointed.

And I have to say while I think that Steve has a wonderful voice it is not of the best voice I have ever heard. While he has written or co-written some wonderful songs, he is not some songwriting God. I have tried and tried and tried to love the stuff on Vanity Project, I just can't. I do like some of them, but not love any and really do not like even more. While I wish him much success in his pursuits I can't say that I am heartbroken that BNL is now a foursome. It was very painful to watch BNL on S&D V and the heaviness was gone when I saw them in Vegas.......that is my BNL!

[marebo]

i to was not a fan of the vanity project...and agree steve has a good throat...but not the best i have heard...i have loved bnl for years...and was saddened with the split...but the four piece has won me over...they are still the guys i have always loved to see live...there is nothing like live bnl...and i love that they all are participating in the live shows...ty is rocking...want to hear him sing more :)..mcgerky...did you take your medication today ?

[The Real Number One Guy]

I always thought Steve secretly wanted to be in the spotlight. Have you seen those videos of him when he was a kid? You could tell he always wanted attention. I think he's sort of like John Lennon, he's a genius! I figure he was writing songs all the time in the early days. But Ed, he's a control freak. Really.

[super srs]

I am the hyperbole police

[Bananas]

I always thought Steve secretly wanted to be in the spotlight. Have you seen those videos of him when he was a kid? You could tell he always wanted attention. I think he's sort of like John Lennon, he's a genius! I figure he was writing songs all the time in the early days. But Ed, he's a control freak. Really.

I would compare him more to a Brian Wilson figure but with less insanity and more white people-ness.

[marebo]

ummm...how does someone show up on thier first post with cred...it's showing up that for me...it must be the genius...lol

[McGerkey]

mcgerky...did you take your medication today ?

It's been long enough now since the initial trauma of Steven Page brutally killing my parents that I don't need the meds anymore.

Thank you for your concern, though!

[AnotherHeartbreak]

nvm I mistook that

[Bananas]

I don't agree with that at all.

Well then you must not know that much about the band.

[AnotherHeartbreak]

Well then you must not know that much about the band.
My bad, I thought he said steve. I misunderstand alot lol.

[Liam]

Well this has just gotten plain weird.

[katezilla]

I'm waiting for the Candid Camera guys to jump out at me while I'm reading this.

[tvfan721]

TheRealNumberOneGuy

I'm curious, how is Ed a control freak? I'm not saying your wrong but I am curious.

[Ellen from Saint Louis]

I think what threw me at the start is the word "power." I think when you're in a pop band it's called "contribution." It's not like this is some weird British cobbled-together government.

[JaneInANutshell]

I've said it before but I'll say it again:

ENOUGH WITH THE SPECULATION. :mad:

[Amicustoall]

OK now I am rolling on the floor laughing, that is fucking funny!

[Liam]

OK now I am rolling on the floor laughing, that is fucking funny!

I'm just off to ask my parents what that word means... the one beginning with f and ending in g...

[Shardith]

The real story can at last be told:

Ed is really a MIGHTY MORPHIN POWER RANGER!!! :rolleyes:

[Amicustoall]

I sure they will explain it for you Liam. :D

[Den of Antiquity]

The real story can at last be told:

Ed is really a MIGHTY MORPHIN POWER RANGER!!! :rolleyes:

No, it's just that someone touched his AWESOME button...

[WeedMage]

Great post, McGerkey!

[Den of Antiquity]

http://doostang.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/george-bush-laughing.jpg


Saying that Ed is the better singer though, is just

well

uh

no.



Sorry, you misunderstand me. I meant that Ed is a much better singer THAN HE WAS IN 1998 - not that he is necesarily a better singer than Steve. Ed has improved himself greatly while Steve is generally still the same great Steve that he has always been. It was asked originally on this thread "how did you feel when Ed gained power" - well, there are several ways to gain power. You can TAKE it by force, you can ASSUME it when one who is in power is no longer alive or fit to hold power, or you can EARN it by proving and improving yourself. I think Ed has done the last of those three quite well over the last several years. I don't believe Ed "took" that power by force, and Steve has not necssarily done anything to show he is either dead or unfit, drug issues notwithstanding. But the balance of power signified by the talent level of the two has definitely equalized more than a little over the years.

And although I am 110% in agreement with the thunderbolt bravado to characterize Steve's massive voice, I will say that one of the last times I saw Steve perform was on S&D V at the Vanity Project show, which I personally thought was the worst performance of any of the many S&D performances I've seen (there, that oughta stir things up.) Maybe he just had an off night, it had to be a tough situation on that boat. But at this show, he was sometimes flat, he was often sharp, he was relatively unenergetic and seemed more interested in making eyes at his girl who was intermittantly on and off stage.

So, is Ed a better singer than Steve? Technically speaking, even after Ed's improvement, he probably still isn't. Ask me who I would rather listen to right now? - give me 10 shows and I'll pick Ed every time. He's earned it.

[Den of Antiquity]

Great stuff, DOA...so, Steve was Alec Baldwin and Ed was Kim Bassinger, and everything was wonderful while Steve was in Glengarry Glen Ross...and then the bitch went and won an Oscar, and the rest is history.

Funny, I was thinking more Demi Moore and Bruce Willis, but for the life of me, I can't remember back when they got married which one was on the upswing and which was on the downswing.

All I remember is which one ended up with a newer, hotter, younger partner. Oh wait, I gues that was both of them...

[Amicustoall]

Well said Den. I was not at the Vanity show on S&DV as I have never been able to get into that music at all, and I have tried on many occasions. But I know what I heard from others, and was pretty happy that that show was not on our dance card that evening. The last main stage show of BNL was sad enough for me.

[Neil]

I think people are misunderstanding my thread here. This thread has NOTHING to do with spectacling why Steve left, it's not our business. It's merely about Ed singing and writing more songs on later albums than on eariler albums. I think this topic was a valid thing to discuss. I don't understand why people are getting upset.

Well, I was trying to point out that one reason Steve had fewer songs on the later albums was that the band didn't want to use his songs with Stephen Duffy.... but I guess because I suggested he might have been unhappy about it, it was dismissed as "speculation."

[Neil]

Ed has improved himself greatly while Steve is generally still the same great Steve that he has always been ... But the balance of power signified by the talent level of the two has definitely equalized more than a little over the years.
I have more of an affinity for Steven's voice and writing style than Ed's, but relatively speaking I think Ed has written better songs than Steven this decade... you could take the Ed songs alone from the BLAM albums and they would make for a strong single album, which I wouldn't say about Steve's songs, which I felt were a bit lacklustre for him. The waters are kind of muddy because they do contribute to each other's songs, but I just have the sense that Ed has been more inspired or enthusiastic or worked harder or something.

[The Real Number One Guy]

I have a video of Ed coming out onto the stage with an Egyptian Headdress if you guys want it. It's in my basement. I don't mind digging it up though.

[tvfan721]

It's ironic because I thought Steve's performances in 2008/2009 were the best of his career. I loved how he changed his whole character, wearing those cool suits at every show and just seeming alot more enthusiastic and happier on stage.

[Appleblossom28]

I've always liked Steve as a musician. I am not doubting his talent. But when people say that Ed isn't as good as Steve well that's kinda unfair. Ed is Ed and Steve is Steve just let them be.

[Amicustoall]

tvfan........a perfect description of a mid-life crisis if I have ever heard it.

[Liam]

Dressing smartly, being happy and enthusiastic? Wow, in that case, I can't wait for my mid-life crisis! :)

[Amicustoall]

Liam you should read the whole thing, not take bits and pieces out that suit your purpose. changed his whole character That is really the operative portion of the description. The enthusiastic and happy can be explained a number of ways.

[Den of Antiquity]

I loved how he changed his whole character, wearing those cool suits at every show

Probably because his woman was dressing him....

[Den of Antiquity]

Probably because his woman was dressing him....

Sorry Amicus -- took just a piece to serve my purpose of a joke...

[tvfan721]

tvfan........a perfect description of a mid-life crisis if I have ever heard it.

I don't even know what your trying to say. I simply think Steve's live performances improved alot in 2008/2009 regardless of HOW or WHY. His personal life is none of my business.

And come on, how can you not like those really cool suits he wore in 2008/2009? Some were cool colors and others looked like pastel suits. It was a unique change and it worked. The same thing with him growing his hair. Who cares if it was his girlfriend that made him do all that? They were improvements to his appearance and that's what mattered.

[ProudMommy77]

...
Who cares if it was his girlfriend that made him do all that? ...

Hmmm... reminds me of someone who broke up the Beatles.

[AnotherHeartbreak]

Hmmm... reminds me of someone who broke up the Beatles.
Don't blame it on Yokey! Actually, blame it all on Yokey cause she did it all!

[The Real Number One Guy]

Hey my grandmother is Yoko Ono so don't be mean.

[McGerkey]

Oh boy, we're back to referring to Steve's girlfriend as "Yoko"?

[garyrulez]

Originally Posted by tvfan721
I think people are misunderstanding my thread here. This thread has NOTHING to do with spectacling why Steve left, it's not our business. It's merely about Ed singing and writing more songs on later albums than on eariler albums. I think this topic was a valid thing to discuss. I don't understand why people are getting upset.

Respectfully, I don't think you can start a thread that assumes Ed was making a power grab and not have it lead back to Steve's leaving.

[garyrulez]

I thought the hair, the beard, the suits were all a bit desparate. If that's what Steve's truly comfortable looking like, great. If he did it because other people told him he looked better that way ("to impress your fans"), ugh.

Also, I completely disagree that 08/09 were some of Steve's best performances. I've seen BNL shows consistently since 1995, and I thought, especially at the very end, that there was zero chemistry. And, further, that lack of chemistry was due specifically to Steve.

A bit more specifically, getting in a fight with your girlfriend during a very expensive show doesn't make for a great performance.

[tvfan721]

Also, I completely disagree that 08/09 were some of Steve's best performances. I've seen BNL shows consistently since 1995, and I thought, especially at the very end, that there was zero chemistry. And, further, that lack of chemistry was due specifically to Steve.

A bit more specifically, getting in a fight with your girlfriend during a very expensive show doesn't make for a great performance.


Can you please go into more detail? That sounds very interesting.

[garyrulez]

I wasn't personally at the show, so I don't want to speak out of school. Others on here were at the show, and have prevously confirmed this as entirely accurate: at the NY Eve show in Detroit a couple of years ago, Steve got into it with his girlfriend from the stage during a song.

I won't go into anymore detail, because I wasn't there, but if anyone else would like to, have at it.

[tvfan721]

Ironically that NYE in Detroit was Steve's last actual concert with BNL. His only performances after that were on the S&D.

In all honesty, if that's true, then that's pathetic.

[Suebee42]

Ironically that NYE in Detroit was Steve's last actual concert with BNL. His only performances after that were on the S&D.

And the ones on the ship don't count? :rolleyes:

I also have to agree with Gary that 2007-2009 were not some of Steve's best, performance-wise. Lots of "phoning it in" at the shows I was at. I've been seeing them live for 14 years, and in 2007 in Lewiston, NY, I really got the vibe that Steve did not want to be there. Definitely a drop in stage chemistry.

In fact, my first show was 14 years ago this week, and the one impression I walked away with was "Damn! That Steve guy can rock it with the crazy dance moves!" I wasn't getting the same magic the last few years.

[Liam]

Ironically that NYE in Detroit was Steve's last actual concert with BNL. His only performances after that were on the S&D.

Why do the S&D shows not count? :confused:

[goof]

In all honesty, if that's true, then that's pathetic.

It's true. I was there. It happened right in front of me.

[tvfan721]

It's true. I was there. It happened right in front of me.

Which song? Most of that concert is on youtube.

[tvfan721]

And the ones on the ship don't count? :rolleyes:

I also have to agree with Gary that 2007-2009 were not some of Steve's best, performance-wise. Lots of "phoning it in" at the shows I was at. I've been seeing them live for 14 years, and in 2007 in Lewiston, NY, I really got the vibe that Steve did not want to be there. Definitely a drop in stage chemistry.

In fact, my first show was 14 years ago this week, and the one impression I walked away with was "Damn! That Steve guy can rock it with the crazy dance moves!" I wasn't getting the same magic the last few years.

Yeah, that concert was in 2007. I said 2008/2009, his performances improved ALOT starting with the Ships & Dip 2008 shows.

[Suebee42]

I still disagree... but whatever.

[goof]

Which song? Most of that concert is on youtube.

I don't remember the songs. They would go back and forth during the first few songs of the show. By the 4th or 5th song she was gone.

[iambe]

Yeah, that concert was in 2007. I said 2008/2009, his performances improved ALOT starting with the Ships & Dip 2008 shows.

Were you actually on the ship? Because I was, and I have to vehemently disagree. His voice was bad, he sounded congested and he was distracted and forgetful during the shows. I remember thinking that he must have had a cold, he sounded so bad. Obviously (in retrospect) I was wrong, but that was certainly my thinking at the time.

And really, your whole "gaining power" premise is stupid. Were you somehow under the impression that this was Steve's band and Ed stole it away? Or do you mistakenly believe that if someone sings lead then they must be the "head" of the band? Neither of those things is true. BNL has always presented as a united front with no "leader", but if they had one, it might be the guy who created the band by getting the first gig, naming the band and recruiting the second member. The guy who has performed at more shows than any other band member*. The guy who said he didn't need a side project because he got his musical fulfillment from the band.

Steve's larger-than-life onstage presence was not an indication of backstage dynamics.


*at the time Steve left Ed had missed ONE show in nearly 20 years.

[McGerkey]

This shit's getting intense.

[tvfan721]

This shit's getting intense.

No kidding! I gotta say though, I'm really glad at how big this thread has gotten. 10 pages of posts! It's awesome. It's been a terrific discussion so far.

[Shardith]

It's terrific if you're into gossip and rehashing old drama.

Let's look forward, not backward. I say it's time to let this thread die.

[Suebee42]

It's terrific if you're into gossip and rehashing old drama.

Let's look forward, not backward. I say it's time to let this thread die.

*ding ding* We have a weiner!

+76459178543

Rena - if you weren't engaged, and I wasn't married, and we weren't both straight women, I'd totally marry you. :D

[Darcey]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/darcey30/Smilies/catfight.gif


It's terrific if you're into gossip and rehashing old drama.

Let's look forward, not backward. I say it's time to let this thread die.

I have to agree...and thus I have decided to not even get into this one but rather sit back and enjoy the banter because I'm afraid that if I open my trap this will go on for 10 more pages....:o

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/darcey30/Smilies/popcorn.gif

[Suebee42]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/darcey30/Smilies/catfight.gif


OMG I love this!

[Den of Antiquity]

It's terrific if you're into gossip and rehashing old drama.

Let's look forward, not backward. I say it's time to let this thread die.

OK, but before we let it die, I would like to say that I am SO looking forward to the next several years with BNL and I am REALLY excited about the potential of this line up. More Creegan, more Hearn, and OK, even more Tyler. And Ed just keeps getting better and better.

Here's to a fantastic 2010 tour, and ripping good S&D4 and many many more years to come with BNL.

Cheers!!

http://bloguspospolitus.blox.pl/resource/beer_toast.jpg

[Amicustoall]

Salud







I hate that short message warning

[Shardith]

Skål!



Yeah, me too.

[Kawltie]

Cheers!!




PS: great post.